Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the reelection of former President Trump would be the “end of democracy” in an interview released Saturday by The Guardian.
“It will be the end of democracy, functional democracy,” Sanders said in the interview.
The Vermont senator also said in the interview that he thinks that another round of Trump as the president will be a lot more extreme than the first.
“He’s made that clear,” Sanders said. “There’s a lot of personal bitterness, he’s a bitter man, having gone through four indictments, humiliated, he’s going to take it out on his enemies. We’ve got to explain to the American people what that means to them — what the collapse of American democracy will mean to all of us.”
Sanders’s words echo those President Biden made in a recent campaign speech during which he said that Trump’s return to the presidency would risk American democracy. The president highlighted the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol in an attempt to cement a point about Trump and other Republicans espousing a kind of extremism that was seen by the world on that day.
He’s right. Of course, this won’t stop “BOTH SIDES” fans, who want fascism in America more than anything else in the world.
They are moving away from “Both Sides” and starting “Biden supports genocide.” It’s just a new way for below average people to think they’re smarter than everyone else.
Biden does support Genocide, in this particular instance. Giving him hell for it and trying to do what people can in order to save all the innocent people getting bombed and shot right now, is fine.
Trump is still infinitely worse. If you think 20,000 dead Gazans is bad, wait until you see what Trump wants to do. Last time around, he fucked up the response to a global crisis that’s currently killed over a million Americans, and that was without even trying; and without any of the vengeful things he’s itching to do this time around if he gets in.
Yes, I think the main issue is (sadly), I don’t think we have an option that actually wants to stop the genocide. It would likely need to be handled by something other than elections, like larger protests.
America and Israel are joined at the hip. Anything less than unconditional military support is not a political position conducive to getting elected, there is intense lobbyism going on to make sure of that. Then there is also the evangelical angle that the jews must control Israel for the rapture to come, so they don’t give two shits about genocide.
Yeah. I saw the stories about protests around the world and felt guilty that I wasn’t in them.
That mother fuckers incompetence is going to kill millions on millions as well as any hope for America’s future. Fucking Nero while Americans burn
The salient point here that so many people are missing is that allowing Trump to be elected because of some misguided ideological purity will absolutely do nothing to protect or liberate the Palestinian people, so why even pretend to care about that, if you aren’t a right wing troll? Allowing far right demagogues to usurp control of western nations will, in fact, cause untold suffering of billions. Palestinians included.
If you are an actual leftist, then it is your duty to consider this moral liability, and soak in the discomfort of the situation with the rest of us. Ideological purity does not cleanse you from this, not matter how much you wish that.
It’s my belief that the “gEnOciDe jOe” was started by full-on MAGA trolls. It’s the_Donald all over again. Started as a troll by MAGA, ended up being believed by the far left.
People for whom support for genocide is a dealbreaker exist whether you understand them or not.
If Biden wants their votes, he cannot continue to support genocide.
No amount of insults or accusations will change that.
I mean I know it has nothing to do with genocide because I’ve had this same conversation with the same trolls for almost two decades now. Get better material.
Those people are going to share some responsibility for the much worse genocide that Trump ushers in, then. They can claim it’s not their fault if that happens, but they’ll be lying.
Preemptively blaming them for the loss that centrist Democrats would prefer to having to abandon support for genocide hasn’t changed the situation:
If Biden wants the votes of people for whom genocide is a dealbreaker, he cannot continue supporting genocide.
Good luck in the hellscape that’s coming, then. You’ll have the comfort of your explanation for why it’s not your fault.
No we won’t. We didn’t want Biden in the first place. The blame lies with every piece of shit who voted for him in the 2020 primaries.
Blame can be shared. If Trump wins, it’s partly the DNC’s fault yes, and obviously a lot of the fault is Trump’s, and also it’s partly yours, if you help him get elected through inaction.
If Biden is such a shitty candidate that he loses to Trump, that’s his fault. Man, the US left loves to eat their own so badly. “Ideological purity”, my ass.
Why doesn’t Biden bear any responsibility for protecting the US from a wannabe dictator? He isn’t some force of nature. He has autonomy. He can make decisions. He can do the right thing.
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The “Genocide Joe” shit is so obviously right wing astroturfing I legitimately cannot read it without imagining trump sitting at a computer typing with his index fingers.
To be very clear - there are some very big issues with the military support of Israel which should discussed out in the open. But doing the Trump name calling thing isn’t engaging in good faith. It’s obvious trolling.
>The “Genocide Joe” shit is so obviously right wing astroturfing I legitimately cannot read it without imagining trump sitting at a computer typing with his index fingers.
got some evidence for this accusation?
Evidence of me imagining how Trump types?
no, the astroturfing.
Are you asking me how I know that leftists who want Donald Trump to win are fake leftists?
Oh they’re leftists. And they’re hell bent on bringing democracy down just like Trump is- but for them, it’s because they’re throwing temper tantrums over a single issue.
So in a way/ they’re worse. Because they are doing it on purpose.
i’m asking what makes you think leftists who won’t vote for genocide want donald trump to win.
Opposition to genocide is an indicator that someone wants Trump to win?
Call us fake leftists if you like but if you need our votes what you label us is irrelevant. We aren’t voting for Joe Biden again. Stop voting for procorporate trash in the primaries.
Of course they don’t. But making wild accusations and insults is a lot easier than reexamining their positions.
“I have serious objections to American foreign policy not being aggressive enough against genocide even when committed by geopolitical allies.”
“Let me take the exact course of action that will put power into the hands that gave the particular genocidal state I’m ostensibly so upset with at this moment the Golan Heights, West Jerusalem, and significant chunks of the West Bank.”
“I am a very smart person!”
Centrist Democrats become very angry at the assertion that Biden should not be supporting genocide.
I’m voting for Biden.
>I’m voting for Biden.
you don’t need to tell him that. tell him your vote depends on fulfilling all your agenda items then vote quietly.
I mean, it doesn’t matter how many times I say it.
Centrist Democrats see criticism of Biden and immediately start thinking of how to dismiss or abuse the critic. The more valid the criticism is, the more vitriolic centrists become. Just watch. At least one of them will ignore that I said I’m voting for Biden and act like I’m not voting or voting for Trump.
this is a strawman
If Biden doesn’t want people saying the he supports genocide, he should stop supporting genocide.
When a centrist Democrat breaks out the insults, it’s a surefire indicator they can’t defend their positions on their merits. And since genocide is indefensible, insults are all centrists have. Not that they’ve ever had much else.
If your world is that black and white, you’re part of the problem.
If you are willing to look the other way while the de facto head of your party is enabling genocide, you’re not in a position to lecture.
I feel like genocide is pretty black and white, but if you wanna play in the ‘grey area’ of genocide that’s your prerogative, just own it loud and proud.
It obviously goes without saying, but Biden does not support genocide.
I’m curious.
Do you think he’s not supporting Israel in their genocide of Palestinians, or do you believe Israel is not committing genocide?
Guess im not able to answer this question.
I fully support removing Hamas.
He’s selling weapons to Netanyahu which are being used to commit genocide.
That’s supporting genocide.
Yes, FFS. I am so tired of people falling for that garbage.
Whoa people are mad that their president is funding a genocide?? :0
Smh they should just stfu and vote. Who cares about foreigners dying
Trump didn’t care about US citizens dying, or did he apologize for fucking up his covid response yet?
Lmao did you think I was suggesting he’s somehow better?
I just find it funny that Americans pretend like their bourgeois “democracy” isn’t just a poorly veiled oligarchy where you get to “choose” between the genocidal zionazi party and the fascist party.
Neither of whom give a fuck about the working class, though one is a bit better at pretending like they do.
One side is clearly better unless you do false equivalence, look at the mortality rate of mothers in states with abortion bans and without etc.
I know this is not as edgy of a take as your both sides cuntery but there is clearly a better and worse choice for the US regardless what kind of zionazi epic words you want to use from your basement setup.
It’s not like Americans don’t know their system is broken, but it’s not like they can fix it one day to the next, they have an election coming up where they have to choose between a shit candidate and a straight up fascist who tried to overthrow their election
Yeah I do agree people should probably still vote for the genocide party, as long as they’re organizing outside the system and building class consciousness to eventually overthrow it.
Just that they shouldn’t pretend like they’re not voting for a genocidal zionazi.
what kind of zionazi epic words
Are “genocide” and “nazi” also “epic words”? It conveys the fact that Biden is a zionist and a nazi quite well, no? Specially when I’ve linked him admitting he is one.
He’s backing Israel because it’s what they’ve always done. It’s a strategic alliance. It’s Nathan yahoo dropping bombs on cities
How is what Americans pretend to do relevant here?
Lmao, did you think I am American?
How is what Americans pretend to do relevant here?
Ah sorry, were we talking about African elections?
did you think I am American?
When did I say you were?
Oh so you just went on some rant about Americans as a reply to me even though it’s not relevant at all, gotcha
Trump is a fascist piece of shit.
Biden is not, and he should not be supporting a genocide.
Trump is a fascist piece of shit
Biden is a zionist piece of shit
You’re part of the problem.
Which problem? But I highly doubt it
Lemmy needs to fricking understand that saying ‘Biden supports genocide’ IS NOT the same as ‘vote for Trump’, if he is committing an atrocity, he is gonna get called out by any sane person, I agree Trump is infinitely worse, but that doesn’t make Biden good, the American electoral system needs a reform but until then, you have to keep electing the lesser evil, but it isn’t equal to good
Lemmy needs to fricking understand that saying ‘Biden supports genocide’ IS NOT the same as ‘vote for Trump’
Lemmy’s centrists already understand this. But since they can’t defend support for genocide because it’s indefensible, they have to attack the person saying it with the standard litany of false assumptions, wild accusations, condescension, gaslighting and overt abuse.
That’s what bugs me the most, instead of saying that ‘biden sucks, but we have no other option’, they are saying ‘You are dumb/Astroturfing and whatever’ Biden is a piece of shit and I am gonna say it, but that doesn’t make me a Fascist
VOTE FOR BIDEN, just to be on the safe side
It’s just a new way for below average people to think they’re smarter than everyone else.
Now if that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black…
We should not be afraid to speak out against morally unjustifiable support for the mass killing of innocent civillians in our name, and with our tax money. That is the reality of the situation, and it is wrong. It will always be wrong regardless of who is doing the killing.
You thinking you have the more enlightened position simply because you are willing to carte blanche accept this behavior or foreign policy position from the candidate that will be better for the United States doesn’t make you a genius, it makes you self-rigtheous and self-centered. Real innocent people are really dying, and your ability to shrug that off in such a smug, self-satisfied way is truly appalling.
We absolutely should be speaking out against the genocide in Gaza and the US role in it. It is horrific. And I cannot shrug it off in good conscience.
I also intend to take action to prevent things getting worse via Trump being elected again. It is possible to do both.
What I cannot fathom is the same handful of users saying over and over how they cannot vote for Biden in good conscience while refusing to acknowledge that by doing so they are effectively permitting Trump to take office–and that such an outcome will be worse for gaza and worse in many other ways. These are the same folks that somehow don’t see how Republicans getting in power will significantly damage our democracy more than any time in the last half century.
Their inflexibility and refusal to genuinely engage on the topic reminds me an awful lot of the rampant astroturfing on Reddit back when. It gets exhausting seeing the same inane bullshit talking points over and over.
What I cannot fathom is the same handful of users saying over and over how they cannot vote for Biden in good conscience
I can definitely appreciate that, but I’m not one of them.
What I cannot fathom is the same handful of users saying over and over how they cannot vote for Biden in good conscience while refusing to acknowledge that by doing so they are effectively permitting Trump to take office–and that such an outcome will be worse for gaza and worse in many other ways. These are the same folks that somehow don’t see how Republicans getting in power will significantly damage our democracy more than any time in the last half century.
Some people won’t pull the lever to divert the trolley.
I will, but I don’t think Dudley Do-Right is justified in tying people to the tracks just because Snidely Whiplash does.
You thinking you have the more enlightened position simply because you are willing to carte blanche accept this behavior or foreign policy position from the candidate that will be better for the United States doesn’t make you a genius, it makes you self-rigtheous and self-centered. Real innocent people are really dying, and your ability to shrug that off in such a smug, self-satisfied way is truly appalling.
This really isn’t at all what he said, and is an extremely dishonest thing to post.
You complain that your comments fall on deaf ears, but when you accuse people of things that are blatant lies, what do you expect?
This really isn’t at all what he said
It certainly was implied though.
No it wasn’t, not even in the least. It’s absolutely dishonest to pretend that’s what it was.
Go after him for what he actually said instead of making up things to be angry about.
Look, I don’t agree with you. I found what the OP said to be smug and self-satisfying as I said. I also found it to be pointedly critical towards anybody pointing out that Joe Biden has a blind spot in supporting Israel’s unethical campaign against Palestinians.
You want to ignore that element, or you don’t see it that way. That’s your prerogative, but don’t call me dishonest because I’m not being dishonest. There’s a difference between legitimate disagreement and dishonesty.
Look at the text you wrote, and the parts that I bolded.
There is a difference between legitimate disagreement and dishonesty.
Pretending that OP is giving carte blanche to genocide or shrugging that off is an outright lie. Accusing them of anything else based on that lie is also dishonest.
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Thanks, but I expect my comment will mostly fall on deaf ears. I find that to be both sad, and yet entirely expected.
I will vote for Joe Biden because it is the only logical thing to do to save our democracy in the immediate term, and it is in my own self-interest. But I am also fully aware of the false dichotomy we are faced with when it comes to the support for Israel, the killing of innocent people with our tax dollars in the name of a “holy crusade” I don’t believe in, and I refuse to turn a blind eye to that simply because it is psychologically convenient.
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Those forkfaces wouldn’t know a good-faith argument if it drugged and molested them at a GOP fundraiser.
If he is even allowed to run it means The Constitution is just optional.
- for Republicans.
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To be clear, that’s all the Republican party is about now.
Lmao the Guardian source article made me double take on the first paragraph:
That big B looks as if it doesn’t just apply to the first line.
Bernie Sanders sweeps into his state office in Burlington, Vermont, Bitching to get on with our interview. When I try to break the ice by Basking the US senator how he is, he replies gruffly, “Good,”
🅱️itching to get on with the interview,
When I try to break the ice by 🅱️asking the US Senator
🅱️motion
🅱️asking
🅱️ernie
🅿️anders
🅱️ooo
Bernie Sanders sweeps into his state office in Burlington, Vermont, Bitching to get on with our interview. When I try to break the ice by Basking the US senator how he is, he replies gruffly, “Good,”
Such a Bernie response. I love him.
I just want you to know I appreciate that you quoted it correctly
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I would’ve added,
“If money didn’t influence elections, why are people spending so much on them?”
That’s one part of it. This is a good read: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/america-is-not-a-democracy/550931/
“The preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.”
The worst part about all of this is, imo, we’ve known what the problems are for so long now, but nothing is getting fixed and the rot is apparent. I grew up in America, but seeing what it is becoming from the outside is heartbreaking.
Yeah repeal CU
He’s not wrong.
And still, half of America probably is like: “don’t threaten me with good times”.
In fairness to the Senator, Trump also loudly and proudly says this all the time.
Bernie for pres.
Except he’s not running, and is too old to run again. So do the next best thing and listen to what he’s fucking saying. This is not a joke.
If all it ever took was one bad president then democracy has already ended and it was always just a matter of time.
This reminds of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy when it describes a planet ruled by reptiles:
[It comes from a very ancient democracy, you see…" “You mean, it comes from a world of lizards?” “No,” said Ford, who by this time was a little more rational and coherent than he had been, having finally had the coffee forced down him, “nothing so simple. Nothing anything like so straightforward. On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.” “Odd,” said Arthur, “I thought you said it was a democracy.” “I did,” said Ford. “It is.” “So,” said Arthur, hoping he wasn’t sounding ridiculously obtuse, “why don’t people get rid of the lizards?” “It honestly doesn’t occur to them,” said Ford. “They’ve all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they’ve voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.” “You mean they actually vote for the lizards?” “Oh yes,” said Ford with a shrug, “of course.” “But,” said Arthur, going for the big one again, “why?” “Because if they didn’t vote for a lizard,” said Ford, "the wrong lizard might get in.]
👆 This Douglas Adams bit is the exact situation we find ourselves in now.
One big lesson from Trump’s presidency was that many of the rules we thought constrained politicians were only “Gentlemen’s Agreements.” They held up because everyone agreed to abide by them. When Trump walked in, refused to abide by them, and wasn’t immediately struck by the political equivalent to lightning from heaven, all the politicians on the right decided that they could toss those pesky rules aside also.
all the politicians on the right decided that they could toss those pesky rules aside also.
And Democrats chose to remain straitjacketed by devotion to decorum.
It’s a really convenient excuse to not fucking do anything.
SCP-682’s home planet. It all makes sense now! Douglas Adams canon when, writers?
It’s just a matter of time til we all die, too, but that doesn’t mean we need to kill ourselves now.
100% correct.
So have him arrested as an enemy of the state, like a fat dumb unathletic Will Smith.
Cut a liberal…
Who is gonna do the arresting?
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said the reelection of former President Trump would be the “end of democracy” in an interview released Saturday by The Guardian.
The Vermont senator also said in the interview that he thinks that another round of Trump as the president will be a lot more extreme than the first.
Sanders’s words echo those President Biden made in a recent campaign speech during which he said that Trump’s return to the presidency would risk American democracy.
The president highlighted the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the Capitol in an attempt to cement a point about Trump and other Republicans espousing a kind of extremism that was seen by the world on that day.
He’s willing to sacrifice democracy to put himself in power,” Biden said in the speech that took place near Valley Forge and on the day before the third anniversary of the Jan. 6 attack.
Biden also said that Trump’s false claims about “the 2020 election never could stand up in court.”
The original article contains 319 words, the summary contains 167 words. Saved 48%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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Welp.
Voters should have never been put in this position. If we have to depend on Joe Biden and Dems to clutch out the win and save Democracy then you might as well start bracing for the worst. “Not being Trump” is low bar a dangerous way to try to win.
He has done a pretty solid job, and has passed some good legislation. If it weren’t for this whole funding Israel’s horrific war crime thing, I’d have no qualms giving him more time to clean shit up.
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This is just in! Genocide Joe is not the other guy!!!
You should know, anyone that says “genocide Joe” unironically isn’t fooling anyone. It’s generally seen as a conservative dogwhistle round these parts.
Genocide Joe is a nickname coined and used by progressives.
Calling it a dogwhistle is generally seen as IDF propganda around these parts.
no progressive use that term. you’re being intentionally disingenuous and it’s obvious to anyone.
any reasonable progressive doesn’t like America’s support of Israel right now but we are all very aware that drump would be worse in all of the ways. so your attitude is pointless and clearly just unnecessary agitation.
I see your username making dumb and controversial comments all the time. high time I block your trolling ass.
Label us whatever you want. I voted for Biden in the 2020 general election and I won’t be voting for him again. The label is irrelevant, all that matters is if you think you need my vote. If you don’t think you need it then ignore me. If you think you need it then start fucking paying attention.
right. so genocide plus fascism is better than just genocide. makes perfect sense.
Stop electing procorporate trash in the primaries. How many times do you need to learn this lesson?
way to dodge the topic
