My favorite:
“Where did you save the file?”
“I saved it in Excel”
Don’t blame the people, they often cant get a mobile and tablet and computer… blame the awful corporations who made everything an app and pushed locked down mobile and tablets environments
Then get a laptop and a phone. No one needs a tablet.
Then they get a chromium based laptop because those were the most affordable ones they can get.
Appification was generalized and its not ppls fault for growing up in that environment, especially if their parents were not big into computers and couldn’t tell the difference.
The key concept they’re missing a lot of the time is that software sits within the file system and not the other way around.
This is largely because apps hide this and data is generally stored in one place on your phone (the downloads folder).
Best way to fix it - have 1–2 lessons entirely devoted to finding shit on their computer. My favourite activity is “ok, save your word file, close word, you now have 10 mins to find that file without opening word”.
I’d at least start them with something simple like Paint or Notepad. Once they have that down, then you can throw the disaster that is the MS Office file save dialog at them.
The paradigm has changed. The rift between PC and smart phone. Is it really a surprise? My 18yr step kid can at least type on a keyboard with proficiency. Beyond that and installing games in steam, he’s lost outside of that. Both I and his mom work in IT. We try to shore up the gaps, but it seems the ‘kid’ actively refuses to learn.
I’m an older zoomer but still a zoomer. Its a crazy dynamic seeing people my age and younger just not getting IT stuff. There’s a high ratio of older to younger people where I’ve worked in IT too.
The challenges thst existed to use technology no longer exist, so there is no longer a reason to look under the hood for most people. It’s like how a lot of generations after boomers don’t know about how to change a tyre or spark plugs etc, cars got more reliable and industries created services to stop you needing to worry about that stuff.
As a kid I remember WANTING to play games with a friend on PC, he knew we needed a null modem cable and we went to pc shop 2 towns over got one and tried to figure out how to play together using it. Then when the Internet came out and we had to fight against Internet connection sharing so one computer could share Internet with friends pc. Trying to use no-cd patches just so we didn’t need to keep grabbing cds to play games etc.
There were so many things you learnt back then but it was because we had no alternative, I get why tech knowledge has vanished and I don’t blame them, they have had no need to solve the same problems and haven’t grown with technology, it’s been already established and they have had no need to concern themselves with it.
Problem is the working world still heavily needs PC skills and basic analytical ability so there needs to be more focus on those old “computer driving license” style courses so people can certify they know how to find a file and end task when something hangs.
I’m not a kid (see my other replies in this thread lol), but I’ve never had to use PDFs for much at all. The closest I’ve ever been to editing one is clicking a box to draw a signature or check a checkbox.
So I’ve gotta ask. Why would one need to rotate a PDF? They would be made on a computer, and naturally default to the correct orientation, no? I can’t imagine why one would ever be sideways.
Pdfs are not always made on computers. In most office environments you are going to run into scanned documents. Scanners like to do funny things and people dont always put all the pages in the correct orientation.
Scanners like to do funny things
I know it’s not very relevant, but that reminds me of a talk held during a CCC (Chaos Computer Club) convention.
It’s in German, but I’ll try to summarize it: Someone noticed the numbers on a scanned page didn’t match the original, so they hired an expert to find out what happened. Turns out that the printer they were using had a feature that would detect symbols that looked the same and basically copypasted ome cutout of the symbol onto the other to save space on the final PDF. Due to the print/copy quality, this substitution sometimes malfunctioned, substituting similar looking symbols, such as 8 and 0.
I see. I didn’t think I ever heard about that. I’m only familiar with them as in a digital version of paperwork, not a digital copy of a document.
I understand exactly how that happens then.
You can scan a document to PDF, sometimes the default orientation isn’t correct.
I learned that from the other reply
I see. I didn’t think I ever heard about that. I’m only familiar with them as in a digital version of paperwork, not a digital copy of a document.
I understand exactly how that happens then.
Well speaking for this week: doing my taxes, reviewing documentation at work.
Yep I’ve noticed that too. I get questions like “what is the difference between downloading and installing” from people that are over 18 years old and under 30.
People are going to start asking AI to rotate PDFs for them, just like people started asking ChatGPT to do math; it’s a terrible idea but will probably work 80% of the time, and that’ll be good enough for most people.
I’m a zoomer and ngl I cannot relate to this
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An unfortunate consequence of developers playing to the lowest common denominator of users for the last twenty years. Everything has been designed to be as easy and intuitive as possible for mobile, and troubleshooting skills have suffered as a result.
Not to mention that phones are crazy powerful and can do virtually everything these days, so fewer and fewer people are buying PCs.
If the general population is indeed “going backwards” in regards to tech literacy, it seems like demand for IT services is going to spike in the coming years. Good thing to keep in mind for young people choosing a career path!
I would point out that while general computer use has gotten easier, doing anything advanced has gotten much harder.
I’m glad my grandma can send memes, but I can’t figure out where an app is saving my files because everything is a walled garden!
Lifelong Android user here. I don’t know where an app saves its files (not to personal folders, but app-private folder) even it’s rooted. I’m glad this protects me from malwares but it also forbids me to put my device in full control.
I almost added this as a point in my original comment, but you’re absolutely right, and its happening in other industries too (auto, for example). Its really tough to troubleshoot things you lack the permissions to fix.
My most recent job hunt has me thinking the same. I used to be a dime a dozen, and young folks were real and serious competition in the job market, but I’ve been in IT since before the .com crash and now my skills are once again becoming unique.
I’ve been raising my kids, warning them about the shit state of IT. Maybe I should have been nerding them harder.
I will say, I would not want to be a software developer right now, but systems support is generally pretty stable (and less likely to be replaced by AI any time soon)
Yeah, I’m a fancy bricklayer these days…
Developers don’t decide that. Blame UX folk for making things simple.
As a UX person often my job is to implement somebody else’s vision rather than being able to design something that makes sense.
As long as you treat yourself as a pixel pusher, this is a side effect. When you understand that you are a mirror for ideas, you will empower yourself.
“Listen boss, I know you wanted me to create it in a certain way, but I am not a pixel pusher alright?! I am a mirror of ideas, so I made something completely different from what you pay me for, what do you mean I’m fired?”
If you say it that way, then yes, even the nicest person will call you a cunt and fire you. If you ask questions, as a user, and showing patterns that support your thesis, this becomes a conversation, rather than a “do it that way”.
edit: People are not all knowing. Once you start asking the right questions, you’ll see that - “Ok, and what happens when the user presses this? And what happens if they delete that?” It’s obviously a very abstract example, but if their ideas can’t stand a single user test, then they shouldn’t be surprised if the feature flops.
I agree in principle but when I’m building something I’m normally 3 - 5 people removed from the people who want it. It’s hard to push your ideas back through project managers, project engineers, program managers, presale engineers, contract managers, feed managers and then onto the actual company that asked you to implement the “solution”.
That’s a problem, I agree. I feel privileged then, because I actually get to research, and interview, and split test. It was a long battle, I’ve been trying to build that culture for a good 5+ years. Once the features started flopping, I started by doing 2 prototypes - one, based on the PRD from the product team and another, based on my personal research. I had to work 12, sometimes 15 hours a day, but when, instead of showing problems, I was showing solutions, without the “i-told-you-so”s, and when I made it clear that I care about the product’s health alone, that’s when I became the mirror. I reckon it’s not an industry term, but it’s what I like to call it - product presents their idea, you reflect it, and more often than not they do not like what they see. That’s when the real work starts.
I meant it a more general sense as anyone involved with the software development life cycle, but I see your point, good catch
i think its more complex than this.
people wont know what to do/wont bother if a simple google search doesnt inmediatly has what they want in the first link.
just want to add, it’s not the zoomer’s fault. they were intentionally raised in ignorance because its apparently profitable
fuck the corporations who’ve deliberately turned our living computers into soulless commercial brainwashing surveillance machines
Also schools that thought just seeing the tech used would give you innate knowledge on how to use a computer.
It’s their parents fault for not using GNU/Linux
True, and Alpha are even worst, most of them never touched a real keyboard, only use 2 thumbs on a phone. Don’t tell them about windows (or/mac/linux) or what is a UI or how to use a mouse and navigate in a OS, they don’t get double click or right click, resize a window, minimize a window (OMG THE WINDOW IS GONE!!!) it’s impressive.
I have seen a lot of late Z/early Alpha who cannot make some special characters on a keyboard like " or $ or even worst using AltCar. Using Word to write a letter, using keyboard shortcuts, etc. they are completely clueless with computers.
Look I don’t doubt you’ve met these people but it’s not everywhere. Here in Australia the kids still learn this at school.
My daughter is in primary school and they’ve learned to use a word processor, spreadsheet, presentation software etc.
So they can all use a keyboard and mouse and she’s done some school projects as PowerPoint slideshows.
Me and a classmate were absolutely stunned when we saw this girl typing in her password, and using Caps Lock to do uppercase letters instead of shift. We looked at her like, “WTF are you doing?” And she seriously did not know what the shift button was for.
I just don’t know how nobody showed or told her this before, and we’re in college…
A good way to get a feel for how these Alpha kids probably feel is to use something un-Windowsy like RiscOS. I felt similarly helpless
Oh, you mean characters that are actually on the keyboard. I thought you meant stuff like ‘Δ’ or ‘°’
I still remember looking up alt codes on the character map.
I haven’t had to represent degrees in decades, but for some reason I remembered the code being 0961. According to this page it was 0176. What a classic blunder!
Xennials are fascinating to watch navigate through tech hurdles. They have a custom built toolbox built purely through trial and error.
I think you misspelled experience.
ouch.
As an autodidact xennial, I’ll take that as a compliment.
DOS, Windows, all the format C:'s in my time, it’s all been trial and error as you say, because there weren’t really anything on the line in the 90s and early 00s.
Absolutely a compliment. It took me many months of research to figure out what PC parts to buy in the late '90s. Now you can easily piece something together in a day.
