“do what you want to me” is my least favourite dirty talk. The base idea is that we both currently WANT to do the same dirty rough sex but for some reason we’re not doing it. What makes her think he’s NOT doing what he wants right now? What if he’s a for fetishist and wants to put her foot in his mouth and jerk off? What if he just wants her to eat his ass?
Clearly “do what you want to me” doesn’t mean do what you want to me. “do what you want to me” means “I have a specific type of rough sex in mind but I’m not able to express my desires clearly, so I’ve projected them into my partner and I’ve made it their responsibility to understand me and do the right type of sex stuff to me”
I know this is basically an unhinged response to a greentext but I’ve had so many bad experiences with that specific line. Is wanting clear communication before and during sex about the sex we’re about to perform too much to ask for?
#NotAllWomen but the ones who do like it rough often have fantasies that involve losing power and agency over what their partner does. Hence roleplaying rape and “do what you want to me”. However, sometimes they do have a script in their head and don’t like it when the partner deviates from that script because they just want to play at losing control, not actually lose it.
Then, if they haven’t agreed on a safe word beforehand, which they haven’t because we’re talking about people who don’t communicate properly, it turns into a confrontation.
I remember a fellow thespian explaining it as a perverse take on being desired. It was hot for her that she seemingly turned [her partner] on so much that he did anything he could to access her. She then went on to say that if it was a stranger, and if she could tell they did it because of her allure, she believed she could forgive them. I quit that troupe soon after for unrelated reasons.
I should probably break out the alt account but whatever. No of course not all but probably more of us like it rough than guys do, judging by the comments. One of the best things about getting older, sex-wise, is old guys have stamina and find it harder to get off so can do harder for longer so that I too can get off. I think it’s fair to say that because the stimulation from PIV is indirect (compared to direct clitoral stimulation) in my experience it can work better to be more physically forceful with it.
“Do what you want with me/have your way with me” is not a sexy thing to say though. It sounds like a bad romance novel thing. “What do you want/need?” or “harder please, slower please” you can say what you need without feeling too bossy, if feeling bossy is a turnoff.
I’m very sex positive and my partners have been too, so I don’t really have this issue, but I think porn has really affected both heterosexual men and women’s perception of sex. You hear it from the female perspective a lot where men just start hitting or choking them during sex, but there’s a cultural undercurrent of the opposite experience where women will try and take a guys hand to her throat and apply pressure because for some reason asking to be choked is weird but that isn’t. Both men and women are seeing rough sex portrayed in porn and assuming that’s the sex everyone wants/is having. In reality, it’s dangerous to do breathplay with an inexperienced partner and that’s not something you just spring on them. I think sex is still a taboo subject and people need to get more comfortable speaking about it. I think the idea of enthusiastic consent and how it incorporates into foreplay is often the deciding factor in how an encounter goes, but often neither party knows how to engage in it.
When I hear people say that porn is bad for your brain I’m always confused. But then I remember rape and cheater porn are two of the most popular forms of porn.
Enthusiastic consent is so sexy! I also love open scene planning beforehand for kinkier sex so that everyone gets what they want out of it and avoid things they don’t want.
A lot of people still find both unsexy and think sex should both be purely spontaneous AND meet all their kinks somehow.
Yes, those are exactly the things that should be happening.
I think the aversion to it is often that it’s not incorporated into the foreplay itself. For more serious things it should be completely separate so that there’s no question what is part of the the play and not, but imho for casual sex there’s less of a need to have a sit down discussion about it. I’m a woman though, so I get that it’s easier for me to say than for a man to say. It sucks because a lot of that onus is put on the person coded as masc/dom in more casual settings, but that’s just the reality of it. I think if more masc/dom coded people incorporated it into their casual sex it’d be less taboo much faster. I don’t think femme/sub coded people are going to be able to push it and still feel like they’re inhabiting the space they want to, so I don’t know if we’ll see a lot of cultural movement unless heterosexual men start to champion this idea of incorporating consent into foreplay.
I disagree actually. I’m a sub and historically the Dommes who’ve been good for me hsve been ones who appreciated that I set boundaries right away and am clear and up front about my desires. It took a huge load off my Domme to know that she wasnt the one to ask for it.
I think sex positive people generally appreciate when their partner is upfront and clear about their boundaries. I just don’t think it’s as common for subs to be the ones to start that discussion. Even your wording regarding it taking a huge burden off your dom implies that there was some pressure on the dom to ask for it. In my experience, the doms are the ones that start that discussion. My experience seems to align with other people’s experience when we discuss it, but I’m definitely not saying that’s always the case.
Well yeah, there is a cultural assumption that the more dominant or masculine partner initiate, but feminine and submissive people can resist that and when we do so we find ourselves with better odds and with better communication. It also means we’re more likely to scare off the people who are uncomfortable with us expressing our wants and needs.
I have particular experience with this as a submissive lesbian. Dominant women are often awkward about their dominance because they’re going against society’s expectations. And especially when it comes to hitting on women many fear being perceived as predatory. By merely being the one to initiate I’m able to break that barrier and display enthusiastic consent.
Ultimately I think it’s something that should be more common and that role/gender shouldn’t be a factor in who initiates
I’m really not sure that we’re in disagreement here. I think anyone initiating is great. I suggested ways for doms to do it that are more consistent with casual interaction than in kink communities, since there seems to be a consensus that subs in the casual scene don’t like it to be so explicit.
I’m not saying subs can’t or shouldn’t. I’m just saying that seeing as subs in more casual settings seem turned off by explicit discussion of boundaries, that it seems like a hard sell to then expect a cultural shift of them embracing being the ones to begin the conversation. If you can start that shift, amazing, but I don’t see a huge movement in that regard currently. I think it’d be ill advised for me to just tell newbie/casual doms “don’t worry have your sub be responsible for bringing up their boundaries”. I would err on the side of caution and I was just providing a suggestion for how to do that in a casual setting without ruining the mood. As I’ve said before, anyone can bring it up and everyone should bring it up.
I understand that people in “casual” settings don’t generally understand kink, but the sub is the one with actual power in the dynamic and has to frame the encounter. Whereas most doms are pretty flexible in what tools is techniques they’re willing to engage in, it’s the sub’s boundaries that generally frame the encounter. Especially in “casual” scenes where it’s more likely that none of the sub’s asks are out of bounds for the dom.
Kink is about exploring fetishes in a safe way that’s enjoyable to all participants. This type of “rough sex” often including breath play isn’t as casual as most participants believe. If you’re a sub and that’s your fetish then it’s best for everyone involved to get more serious about Safe Sane Consensual sex.
It’s the same problem as 50 shades of grey where someone with a Dom/sub fetish engages in dangerously unsafe and non-consensual sex but it’s “sexy” coded in the movie. In real life the kind of guy that would break past all your boundaries and do perform violent sex acts whether you wanted it not is a violent, dangerous person. In an SSC setting, these encounters are negotiated ahead of time (and more subtly during the scene), openly and without an unbalanced power dynamic.
From personal experience in casual settings it’s femme/sub coded people that tend to oppose enthusiastic consent. The idea of “agreeing” to various acts doesn’t feel “subby” enough.
I suspect the casual femme/sub role is mentally coded the same was bodice rippers/literary smut content is where a strong masc/dom appears and coercively satisfies all the femme/subs desires without real communication occurring freeing the femme/sub from the “shame” of accepting and expressing their femme/sub desires.
I think it would be, to me, difficult for the concept of enthusiastic consent to come from just one side of the equation. Both partners have to find it sexy for it to be sexy. It needs to enter our sexual zeitgeist, likely through advocacy and proper sexual education.
I have a hard time understanding how to people asking for what they want and expressing what they’d like to do could possibly be unsexy to anyone. Like I’m watching everyone get off and have their sexual needs validated and acted on. Non enthusiastic consent sex is SOMETIMES hot like the movies where two people are on the same wavelength and effortlessly act on eachothers desires. MOST of the time it’s awkward lack of communication leading to uncomfortable positions and the partners ESPECIALLY the femme/sub role having ALMOST what they want, getting CLOSE to amazing orgasm(s), but through lack of communication not really getting there, or settling for less.
Ironically the people who most consistently have “sexy hot movie sex” without having to talk are people who have been having enthusiastic consent sex for a few weeks or months and are playing out a scene they both understand.
Whew, thinking all this out is making me feel some kind of ways!
Yeah, I agree with your personal experience regarding who is generally turned off by it, but I think that’s why it needs to be a masc/Dom lead thing. Subs are too turned off by it conceptually and don’t want to take the lead. I think the big issue is how it’s incorporated into foreplay. Unfortunately, being sexy and dom about consent is not second nature to everyone, but it can definitely be done.
“Do you want me to X” or “wouldn’t you like that?” can be sprinkled throughout foreplay. “Tell me when to stop” or walking someone through an RP scenario where you respect their no and then they have to enthusiastically express consent to proceed. Absolute basic outline below devoid of all sexuality and not actually phrasing I would use:
“Tell me to stop”
“I don’t want you to”
“Tell me anyway”
Option A
“Ok. Stop”
You stop and then have some sexy banter and tell them they need to ask you to continue. You’ve now demonstrated that you will respect their no even if you know it’s just play and you have their enthusiastic consent to proceed. If they don’t want to proceed either they didn’t actually like what was happening or you can try to ask them what they want instead and now they’re in charge.
OR
“No I like this too much”
You can proceed and potentially ask sexy follow ups to understand what specifically they like. “Oh you like how I X or do you like how I Y better?”
The issue is there’s a fine line between sexy and cringe. Knowing how to read a situation will definitely help, but the concept of using consent to build suspense is not new. There’s a whole genre of bodice rippers where the woman is the one that finally gives in and lets the man take her because he insists he won’t touch her until she begs for it. It obviously requires more restraint from the dom, and different techniques work on different people, but generally a way can be found to put consent in the hands of a sub without letting them feel like the power dynamic has been lost. It really is an art form though and not everyone can be a great artist, but we can all try our best.
“do what you want to me” is my least favourite dirty talk. The base idea is that we both currently WANT to do the same dirty rough sex but for some reason we’re not doing it. What makes her think he’s NOT doing what he wants right now? What if he’s a for fetishist and wants to put her foot in his mouth and jerk off? What if he just wants her to eat his ass?
Clearly “do what you want to me” doesn’t mean do what you want to me. “do what you want to me” means “I have a specific type of rough sex in mind but I’m not able to express my desires clearly, so I’ve projected them into my partner and I’ve made it their responsibility to understand me and do the right type of sex stuff to me”
I know this is basically an unhinged response to a greentext but I’ve had so many bad experiences with that specific line. Is wanting clear communication before and during sex about the sex we’re about to perform too much to ask for?
Oh, so “Do what you want to me” doesn’t mean put her feet in my mouth and jerk off? But that’s what I want.
Right on the head, I’ve had a woman try to tell me to be rougher and take what I want.
Sure, right after you sign a fucking waiver - I’m not about to ‘take what I want’ and have you turn around and claim I forced you into something.
The waiver isn’t legally binding. Wouldn’t waste your time.
Do all women secretly want to be raped?
Seriously. It might be a genetic primate thing. Built in.
#NotAllWomen but the ones who do like it rough often have fantasies that involve losing power and agency over what their partner does. Hence roleplaying rape and “do what you want to me”. However, sometimes they do have a script in their head and don’t like it when the partner deviates from that script because they just want to play at losing control, not actually lose it.
Then, if they haven’t agreed on a safe word beforehand, which they haven’t because we’re talking about people who don’t communicate properly, it turns into a confrontation.
No.
I remember a fellow thespian explaining it as a perverse take on being desired. It was hot for her that she seemingly turned [her partner] on so much that he did anything he could to access her. She then went on to say that if it was a stranger, and if she could tell they did it because of her allure, she believed she could forgive them. I quit that troupe soon after for unrelated reasons.
Sounds like she was a narcissist, personally.
Definitely abusive. Often narcissism and abusive behavior go hand in hand
deleted by creator
I should probably break out the alt account but whatever. No of course not all but probably more of us like it rough than guys do, judging by the comments. One of the best things about getting older, sex-wise, is old guys have stamina and find it harder to get off so can do harder for longer so that I too can get off. I think it’s fair to say that because the stimulation from PIV is indirect (compared to direct clitoral stimulation) in my experience it can work better to be more physically forceful with it.
“Do what you want with me/have your way with me” is not a sexy thing to say though. It sounds like a bad romance novel thing. “What do you want/need?” or “harder please, slower please” you can say what you need without feeling too bossy, if feeling bossy is a turnoff.
I’m very sex positive and my partners have been too, so I don’t really have this issue, but I think porn has really affected both heterosexual men and women’s perception of sex. You hear it from the female perspective a lot where men just start hitting or choking them during sex, but there’s a cultural undercurrent of the opposite experience where women will try and take a guys hand to her throat and apply pressure because for some reason asking to be choked is weird but that isn’t. Both men and women are seeing rough sex portrayed in porn and assuming that’s the sex everyone wants/is having. In reality, it’s dangerous to do breathplay with an inexperienced partner and that’s not something you just spring on them. I think sex is still a taboo subject and people need to get more comfortable speaking about it. I think the idea of enthusiastic consent and how it incorporates into foreplay is often the deciding factor in how an encounter goes, but often neither party knows how to engage in it.
When I hear people say that porn is bad for your brain I’m always confused. But then I remember rape and cheater porn are two of the most popular forms of porn.
Enthusiastic consent is so sexy! I also love open scene planning beforehand for kinkier sex so that everyone gets what they want out of it and avoid things they don’t want.
A lot of people still find both unsexy and think sex should both be purely spontaneous AND meet all their kinks somehow.
Yes, those are exactly the things that should be happening.
I think the aversion to it is often that it’s not incorporated into the foreplay itself. For more serious things it should be completely separate so that there’s no question what is part of the the play and not, but imho for casual sex there’s less of a need to have a sit down discussion about it. I’m a woman though, so I get that it’s easier for me to say than for a man to say. It sucks because a lot of that onus is put on the person coded as masc/dom in more casual settings, but that’s just the reality of it. I think if more masc/dom coded people incorporated it into their casual sex it’d be less taboo much faster. I don’t think femme/sub coded people are going to be able to push it and still feel like they’re inhabiting the space they want to, so I don’t know if we’ll see a lot of cultural movement unless heterosexual men start to champion this idea of incorporating consent into foreplay.
I disagree actually. I’m a sub and historically the Dommes who’ve been good for me hsve been ones who appreciated that I set boundaries right away and am clear and up front about my desires. It took a huge load off my Domme to know that she wasnt the one to ask for it.
I think sex positive people generally appreciate when their partner is upfront and clear about their boundaries. I just don’t think it’s as common for subs to be the ones to start that discussion. Even your wording regarding it taking a huge burden off your dom implies that there was some pressure on the dom to ask for it. In my experience, the doms are the ones that start that discussion. My experience seems to align with other people’s experience when we discuss it, but I’m definitely not saying that’s always the case.
Well yeah, there is a cultural assumption that the more dominant or masculine partner initiate, but feminine and submissive people can resist that and when we do so we find ourselves with better odds and with better communication. It also means we’re more likely to scare off the people who are uncomfortable with us expressing our wants and needs.
I have particular experience with this as a submissive lesbian. Dominant women are often awkward about their dominance because they’re going against society’s expectations. And especially when it comes to hitting on women many fear being perceived as predatory. By merely being the one to initiate I’m able to break that barrier and display enthusiastic consent.
Ultimately I think it’s something that should be more common and that role/gender shouldn’t be a factor in who initiates
I’m really not sure that we’re in disagreement here. I think anyone initiating is great. I suggested ways for doms to do it that are more consistent with casual interaction than in kink communities, since there seems to be a consensus that subs in the casual scene don’t like it to be so explicit.
I’m not saying subs can’t or shouldn’t. I’m just saying that seeing as subs in more casual settings seem turned off by explicit discussion of boundaries, that it seems like a hard sell to then expect a cultural shift of them embracing being the ones to begin the conversation. If you can start that shift, amazing, but I don’t see a huge movement in that regard currently. I think it’d be ill advised for me to just tell newbie/casual doms “don’t worry have your sub be responsible for bringing up their boundaries”. I would err on the side of caution and I was just providing a suggestion for how to do that in a casual setting without ruining the mood. As I’ve said before, anyone can bring it up and everyone should bring it up.
I understand that people in “casual” settings don’t generally understand kink, but the sub is the one with actual power in the dynamic and has to frame the encounter. Whereas most doms are pretty flexible in what tools is techniques they’re willing to engage in, it’s the sub’s boundaries that generally frame the encounter. Especially in “casual” scenes where it’s more likely that none of the sub’s asks are out of bounds for the dom.
Kink is about exploring fetishes in a safe way that’s enjoyable to all participants. This type of “rough sex” often including breath play isn’t as casual as most participants believe. If you’re a sub and that’s your fetish then it’s best for everyone involved to get more serious about Safe Sane Consensual sex.
It’s the same problem as 50 shades of grey where someone with a Dom/sub fetish engages in dangerously unsafe and non-consensual sex but it’s “sexy” coded in the movie. In real life the kind of guy that would break past all your boundaries and do perform violent sex acts whether you wanted it not is a violent, dangerous person. In an SSC setting, these encounters are negotiated ahead of time (and more subtly during the scene), openly and without an unbalanced power dynamic.
From personal experience in casual settings it’s femme/sub coded people that tend to oppose enthusiastic consent. The idea of “agreeing” to various acts doesn’t feel “subby” enough.
I suspect the casual femme/sub role is mentally coded the same was bodice rippers/literary smut content is where a strong masc/dom appears and coercively satisfies all the femme/subs desires without real communication occurring freeing the femme/sub from the “shame” of accepting and expressing their femme/sub desires.
I think it would be, to me, difficult for the concept of enthusiastic consent to come from just one side of the equation. Both partners have to find it sexy for it to be sexy. It needs to enter our sexual zeitgeist, likely through advocacy and proper sexual education.
I have a hard time understanding how to people asking for what they want and expressing what they’d like to do could possibly be unsexy to anyone. Like I’m watching everyone get off and have their sexual needs validated and acted on. Non enthusiastic consent sex is SOMETIMES hot like the movies where two people are on the same wavelength and effortlessly act on eachothers desires. MOST of the time it’s awkward lack of communication leading to uncomfortable positions and the partners ESPECIALLY the femme/sub role having ALMOST what they want, getting CLOSE to amazing orgasm(s), but through lack of communication not really getting there, or settling for less.
Ironically the people who most consistently have “sexy hot movie sex” without having to talk are people who have been having enthusiastic consent sex for a few weeks or months and are playing out a scene they both understand.
Whew, thinking all this out is making me feel some kind of ways!
Yeah, I agree with your personal experience regarding who is generally turned off by it, but I think that’s why it needs to be a masc/Dom lead thing. Subs are too turned off by it conceptually and don’t want to take the lead. I think the big issue is how it’s incorporated into foreplay. Unfortunately, being sexy and dom about consent is not second nature to everyone, but it can definitely be done.
“Do you want me to X” or “wouldn’t you like that?” can be sprinkled throughout foreplay. “Tell me when to stop” or walking someone through an RP scenario where you respect their no and then they have to enthusiastically express consent to proceed. Absolute basic outline below devoid of all sexuality and not actually phrasing I would use: “Tell me to stop” “I don’t want you to” “Tell me anyway”
Option A “Ok. Stop” You stop and then have some sexy banter and tell them they need to ask you to continue. You’ve now demonstrated that you will respect their no even if you know it’s just play and you have their enthusiastic consent to proceed. If they don’t want to proceed either they didn’t actually like what was happening or you can try to ask them what they want instead and now they’re in charge.
OR “No I like this too much” You can proceed and potentially ask sexy follow ups to understand what specifically they like. “Oh you like how I X or do you like how I Y better?”
The issue is there’s a fine line between sexy and cringe. Knowing how to read a situation will definitely help, but the concept of using consent to build suspense is not new. There’s a whole genre of bodice rippers where the woman is the one that finally gives in and lets the man take her because he insists he won’t touch her until she begs for it. It obviously requires more restraint from the dom, and different techniques work on different people, but generally a way can be found to put consent in the hands of a sub without letting them feel like the power dynamic has been lost. It really is an art form though and not everyone can be a great artist, but we can all try our best.
A little off topic, but do you know of a kink community on Lemmy? Not porn, more just to talk about it/share resources, etc.
Right now your best best is the nsfw asklemmy. It likely gets the most views from people, so you’re more likely to connect.
!bdsm@lemmynsfw.com was supposed to be that, if you read the stickied posts it’s still supposed to be that. But it’s mostly porn atm.
I haven’t found an active kink community in the Lemmyverse, but I haven’t looked very hard.
Sounds like something that could be very easily solved with basic communication.
No no, I think you captured it perfectly.